I'm still not sure what this article is saying. The price estimate for the Machine, would it be $700 or higher?

Hopefully Valve had a stock of Steam Machines before RAM and SSD price increases, however Valve buying parts in a large quantity likely aren't paying retailer prices for RAM and SSD's.
But interesting after a bunch of panic because Valve said it would be priced like a PC, despite other tech Youtube channels have said it may be under $700 based on the cost of building with similar components.

Steam Machine supposedly has graphics compute equivalent to a RX 7600 (which is ~ 20% higher relative performance to a RX 6600)?

That said, since a Xbox Series X is ~ $650 USD and a PS5 Pro is ~ $750 USD, I suppose any economies of scale that Valve could bring to bear (subsidy or no subsidy) to keep the price close to console would be better than the alleged $1000+ USD being thrown around...

I'm gonna plug in the thread I opened about the Steam Machine's hardware, especially my attempt at making a much beefier version, 1000€ being the price target (not built yet but I've put in all the orders, waiting on deliveries)

LTT's video was a good watch, a lot of it made sense to me, they did forget to include the wifi/bluetooth module in their build but the cost is a fraction of the build, you can get a plug-in kit for 40-50€, very likely less for integrated solutions

The most interesting here is those two pictures, the fact that many hardware parts, not just memory and storage, have gone up. CPU, even PSU, much more expensive than their historical minimums. Still I think the Steam Machine will be a $600 box product. Valve will buy the CPUs in quantities from AMD and probably at a very nice discount considering that they are an important partner for AMD, the motherboard will be probably much cheaper to produce, SSDs probably will cost Valve about $20-$25 each and I doubt the PSU will cost more than $40. The case will be probably a $20-$30 cost. I believe a Steam Machine will be costing Valve $500 to manufacture, boxed and shipped.

@TheGeekn°72 yeap, thanks.

Tam 212Steam Machine supposedly has graphics compute equivalent to a RX 7600 (which is ~ 20% higher relative performance to a RX 6600)?

nope, a juiced up RX7600M, mobile SKU which is trailing behind the desktop version by a sizeable ~23%-ish according to the relative perf chart

john_Still I think the Steam Deck will be a $600 box product.

I think you mean the machine X) the Deck has actually been discounted to 335€ today

john_the motherboard will be probably much cheaper to produce

considering how cram packed with electronics it is (the added complexity of the traces from having two dies, two sets of VRMs, SODIMM socket(s) on something the size of a mug coaster is non-negligible), I doubt it'll be that cheap, even if there isn't a chipset on it

john_SSDs probably will cost Valve about $20-$25 each and I doubt the PSU will cost more than $40.

can't say for the PSU but assuming margins on SSDs are as Linus said, less than 10% and that they're going for 50+ for 500GB, doubtful

john_I believe a Steam Deck will be costing Valve $500 to manufacture, boxed and shipped.

I'm expecting the reality of the thing being closer to a net zero on all sales, especially with both RAM and storage being price out of their minds right now and possibly continuously for the future, no matter the amount of cost savings they'll be willing to go to to make it as cheap as possible

6 core cpu, 8GB vram, very low TDP components, 500GB ssd, no anticheat meaning difficulty playing almost any online game, this thing is lower tier than a 5 year old PS5 that sells for $399.

TheGeekn°72but assuming margins on SSDs are as Linus said, less than 10% and that they're going for 50+ for 500GB, doubtful

As an individual I can buy a 500GB 3500MB/sec NVMe SSD from Ali for a little more than 30 euros. I bet Valve can get them cheaper even from companies like Kingston.

Don't expect today's prices to hold for anything, including comparable builds. Unless the AI bubble bursts in the near future it's going to be painful for everyone.

phints6 core cpu, 8GB vram, very low TDP components, 500GB ssd, no anticheat meaning difficulty playing almost any online game, this thing is lower tier than a 5 year old PS5 that sells for $399.

A 6 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 8GB VRAM is better than what a majority of gamers on Steam have according to Valve.
www.techpowerup.com/342970/valve-claims-steam-machine-outperforms-70-of-current-gaming-pcs?cp=6

A 500GB SSD can be upgraded later, or a USB-C SSD can be added, anything more than the current specs would cause the system to be expensive because of inflated RAM and SSD prices.
And plenty of games on SteamOS & Linux with an anti-cheat are playable, the ones that aren't are on game publishers to add compatibility for SteamOS. The PS5 can't play Steam games, and Sony sells their console at cost or a loss and makes up the rest through subscriptions and exclusive games.

Hecate91A 6 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 8GB VRAM is better than what a majority of gamers on Steam have according to Valve.
www.techpowerup.com/342970/valve-claims-steam-machine-outperforms-70-of-current-gaming-pcs?cp=6

I don't like both the title and the premise of this article, I honestly doubt Valve claims the Machine is *better* than 70% of what people have, I'd guess they rather said it's *equal* (mostly true, it has PS5 performing specs) OR better (doubtful considering you can get about the same core and memory specs with higher CU count, power and cooling profiles relatively easily up until now)
though unless they explicitly said that it's better, in which case I'd welcome a link to the correct info, I didn't find anything claiming something else, maybe I'm wrong on that

Hecate91A 500GB SSD can be upgraded later, or a USB-C SSD can be added

I keep reminding people that NVMe enclosures are dirt cheap and USB-C supports 10Gbps, which is plenty for that kind of usage

Hecate91A 6 core CPU, 16GB RAM, 8GB VRAM is better than what a majority of gamers on Steam have according to Valve.
www.techpowerup.com/342970/valve-claims-steam-machine-outperforms-70-of-current-gaming-pcs?cp=6

A 500GB SSD can be upgraded later, or a USB-C SSD can be added, anything more than the current specs would cause the system to be expensive because of inflated RAM and SSD prices.
And plenty of games on SteamOS & Linux with an anti-cheat are playable, the ones that aren't are on game publishers to add compatibility for SteamOS. The PS5 can't play Steam games, and Sony sells their console at cost or a loss and makes up the rest through subscriptions and exclusive games.

Valve is full of it. Better? The RX 7600 deskop chip is the equivalent of a 3060, slightly slower then a 4060. Looking at the top 10 GPUs, we have the 3060, the 4060, the 4060ti, the 3060ti, the 3070, the 3050, the 1650, and the 4070. Only looking at desktop chips, we also include the 2060 and 1060. The 1060, 2060, 1650, and 3050 are all slower. The rest are as fast or faster. More crucially, they are CHEAP. You can get a 8GB 5060 for as low as $280, and that card is ~20% faster then a 7600 desktop chip.

On that note, the steam machine does not have a 7600 desktop chip. The 28cu core count is a 7600M chip, otherwise known as the RX 7400. Now there is some debate as to its clocks, most likely, said GPU is slower then the 6650xt. Its slower then the 2070. Its slower then a 2060 super. It's slower then the RTX 5050, a card available for $249.

Is a proprietary, non upgradeable cube with a RX 7400 worth $700? In my eye - hell no. IF this thing had a 9060xt in it, sure, now we're talking, but this GPU is very weak and isnt going to age well, and cannot be upgraded. Neither can the CPU apparently, so you are forever stuck with a 6 core zen 4 chip. The only thing it would be a valid "replacement" for are PCs still using 1060s, but given how cheap faster GPUs have been available, and still are, the people using them are not likely looking to dump $700+ on a GabeCube. For half the price they could get a substantially better upgrade.

EDIT: stop saying Crucially. They dont make the MX500 anymore.

john_The most interesting here is those two pictures, the fact that many hardware parts, not just memory and storage, have gone up. CPU, even PSU, much more expensive than their historical minimums. ...

Correct! Most of the Steam Machine's price goes into having anything at all and not performance. A new gaming PC under $1000 makes no sense.

A budget gaming PC with a 7500F & 9060 XT 16GB would be 100% faster or 200% for ray tracing games. (my rough estimation with Hardware Unboxed data)
With normal RAM and SSD prices you could have build that for $1000 easily.

So keeping the same price to performance would mean $500 or $333 for raytracing games. Otherwise it is bad value for gaming.

From another viewpoint, Dell, HP & Lenovo Office PCs start at $600. Their CPU is better, but they have no GPU. I think the Steam Machine is more an atypical balanced office PC than a gaming PC.

TheinsanegamerNValve is full of it. Better? The RX 7600 deskop chip is the equivalent of a 3060, slightly slower then a 4060. Looking at the top 10 GPUs, we have the 3060, the 4060, the 4060ti, the 3060ti, the 3070, the 3050, the 1650, and the 4070. Only looking at desktop chips, we also include the 2060 and 1060. The 1060, 2060, 1650, and 3050 are all slower. The rest are as fast or faster. More crucially, they are CHEAP. You can get a 8GB 5060 for as low as $280, and that card is ~20% faster then a 7600 desktop chip.

referring to my earlier reply here, I strongly doubt Valve claimed the Machine would be "better", I'm not defending Valve specifically, I'm just pointing out that it would be strangely unusual from them to make such an anomalous claim about their device, because everyone knows its bullshit

TheinsanegamerNOn that note, the steam machine does not have a 7600 desktop chip. The 28cu core count is a 7600M chip, otherwise known as the RX 7400.

you cannot in good faith compare the 7600M and the 7400 beyond their CU count, especially with a third of the TDP and 2/3 of the clocks of the 7600M
the 7400 doesn't even have the media engine, it can't decode/encode video, it's a glorified video card that can *maybe* do a tiny bit of gaming and the 8GB it gets are honestly a waste of VRAM on this thing

TheinsanegamerNIs a proprietary, non upgradeable cube with a RX 7400 worth $700? In my eye - hell no.

there's a lot of mini PCs with 7XXXHS/8XXXHS APUs and socketed 8600G/8700G, they all have 760M/780M iGPUs (the 780M being half the power of the base 7600M, of which the Machine has a juiced up version that should land its performance anywhere between 7 to 12% up from base 7600M, more details here)

they usually ballpark around 500-900 depending on what you can find in it (memory/storage being the usual factors), the feature set that comes with (I/O and stuff) and the desk footprint they have, which compares to the Machine, with an external power supply
let's say Linus is right and the GabeCube lands in the 700~750 ballpark, you get something with dedicated video die and video memory, specifically designed for gaming with console like features you *WILL NOT* find on another PC (i.e dedicated controller pairing & HDMI CEC wake-on-boot), especially at that price point

TheinsanegamerNIF this thing had a 9060xt in it, sure, now we're talking

I'll refer you to my current project involving a 9060XT 16GB, 9600X, 32GB RAM, Wifi7/BT5.4 and 500GB storage for a 1000€ price tag
8GB variants (300~350€) are "only" about 70€ cheaper than the 16GB ones (360~390€)

TheinsanegamerNbut this GPU is very weak and isnt going to age well, and cannot be upgraded.

and yet, here we are in 2025 with people still enjoying the Zen2/RDNA2 APU w/ 16GB unified memory of the PS5 or the x4 Zen2 cores, x8 CU RDNA2 CUs of the Deck

TheinsanegamerNNeither can the CPU apparently, so you are forever stuck with a 6 core zen 4 chip.

Zen4 is literally just last gen and 6 cores in *plenty*, the only struggle you could possibly encounter would be with games making legitimate use of multicore performance

TheinsanegamerNThe only thing it would be a valid "replacement" for are PCs still using 1060s, but given how cheap faster GPUs have been available, and still are, the people using them are not likely looking to dump $700+ on a GabeCube. For half the price they could get a substantially better upgrade.

then go ahead, you're welcome to try and convince console players (of which I think most of the targeted customer base of the machine will be made of) to learn how to make a PC on their own, which is way too muchh info to teach/learn/process, or will theiy choose the convenience to buy, plug-n-play a Machine? All for slightly more than a PS5 that retains all of the functions of a console and their Steam library while having all the functions of a PC in a format that sips on power and can be thrown in a backpack to play with the homies, at your best bro's place on friday evening.
I made my 1000€ homemade GabeCube "Pro" as a blueprint people could follow but not many people (the casual gamer kind that doesn't even know what a CPU is, just that pretty colors and explosions appear when you press the ON button) are gonna go out of their way to make their own.

TheGeekn°72referring to my earlier reply here, I strongly doubt Valve claimed the Machine would be "better", I'm not defending Valve specifically, I'm just pointing out that it would be strangely unusual from them to make such an anomalous claim about their device, because everyone knows its bullshit

Well, it was a Valve engineer that claimed that, and it was in the article linked to you.

TheGeekn°72you cannot in good faith compare the 7600M and the 7400 beyond their CU count, especially with a third of the TDP and 2/3 of the clocks of the 7600M
the 7400 doesn't even have the media engine, it can't decode/encode video, it's a glorified video card that can *maybe* do a tiny bit of gaming and the 8GB it gets are honestly a waste of VRAM on this thing

I CAN compare it in "good faith", this isnt Reddit were "muh bad faith" is an excuse. Media engine performance has nothing to do with gaming, which was the subject at hand.

You're also wrong. The RX 7400 has a media decode/encode engine. This is not the RX 6400.
hmc-tech.com/gpu/amd-radeon-rx-7400

So yeah, I'm pretty comfortable in saying this GPU is a derivative of the RX 7400. That, and both of these GPUs are Navi 33.

TheGeekn°72there's a lot of mini PCs with 7XXXHS/8XXXHS APUs and sockets 8600G/8700G, they all have 760M/780M iGPUs (the 780M being half the power of the base 7600M, of which the Machine has a juiced up version that should land its performance anywhere between 7 to 12% up from base 7600M, more details here)

they usually ballpark around 500-900 depending on what you can find in it (memory/storage being the usual factors), the feature set that comes with (I/O and stuff) and the desk footprint they have, which compares to the Machine, with an external power supply

The existence of these machines doesnt justify the GabeCubes price. The main complaint I hear about those mini PCs, aside from the atrocious reliability of oddball chinese brand names, is that they are too expensive for the performance they offer.

TheGeekn°72let's say Linus is right and the GabeCube lands in the 700~750 ballpark, you get something with dedicated video die and video memory, specifically designed for gaming with console like features you *WILL NOT* find on another PC (i.e dedicated controller pairing & HDMI CEC wake-on-boot), especially at that price point

Having a dedicated card doesnt really matter when its performance is garbage. Who want sto spend %750 on a non upgradeable PC that is that slow?

TheGeekn°72I'll refer you to my current project involving a 9060XT 16GB, 9600X, 32GB RAM, Wifi7/BT5.4 and 500GB storage for a 1000€ price tag
8GB variants (300~350€) are "only" about 70€ cheaper than the 16GB ones (360~390€)

A) your project already has more storage and RAM and stronger WIFI and a better CPU then the Steam machine is using
B) Valve is not paying retail prices.

Pretty sure Valve could figure out how to squeeze a 9060xt in there for $750. Even if it was $850 instead, a 9060xt is a far more acceptable GPU for a non upgradeable solution.

TheGeekn°72and yet, here we are in 2025 with people still enjoying the Zen2/RDNA2 APU w/ 16GB unified memory of the PS5

Dedicated environment, not a direct comparison. Enjoyment of the PS5 =! people will enjoy gaming on a slow RX 7400 derivative.

TheGeekn°72or the x4 Zen2 cores, x8 CU RDNA2 CUs of the Deck

The Deck struggles with UE5 games in general. That's not what people want to spend $750 to experience on their TV. Portables ar ea niche audience willing to sacrifice to have games on the go, the living room console audience is not the same type of consumer.

TheGeekn°72Zen4 is literally just last gen and 6 cores in *plenty*, the only struggle you could possibly encounter would be with games making legitimate use of multicore performance

And what happens in 5+ years when8 core is the new minimum? The AMD community is all about upgrading, this cannot be upgraded. That gives it a finite lifespan, and that harms its value.

If the GabeBox supported upgrading the CPU.GPU, the price could make a lot more sense as you could upgrade it long term.

TheGeekn°72then go ahead, you're welcome to try and convince console players (of which I think most of the targeted customer base of the machine will be made of) to learn how to make a PC on their own or have the convenience to buy, plug-n-play a Machine for slightly more than a PS5 that retains all of the functions of a console and their Steam library while having all the functions of a PC in a format that sips on power and can be thrown in a backpack to play with the homies, at your best bro's place on friday evening.
I made my 1000€ homemade GabeCube "Pro" as a blueprint people could follow but not many people (the casual gamer kind that doesn't even know what a CPU is, just that pretty colors and explosions appear when you press the ON button) are gonna go out of their way to make their own.

Newsflash, most console players want a CONSOLE, not a PC masquerading as a console that doesnt properly support vsync and cant play the biggest multiplayer games on the market. I dont need to convince them.

The only guys I know who still take their PCs to a bros place on a Friday evening all have full ATX towers and lug that hardware up 3 flights of stairs. Even theough they do it semi regularly, not one of them sees any value in makign the PC smaller. Those that dont want to lug the thing around have these things called Laptops.

The market for the GabeCube here is
A) people who are OK with sub $250 GPU performance
B) people who are OK with paying $700+ for that performance
C) people who are OK with not being able to upgrade that performance
D) people who are OK using linux as their main OS, with all the caveats
E) people who want this performance to be mobile, but NOT a laptop
F) people who want a console like experience but dont want a console.

Now, maybe I'm wrong and there are hordes of gamers just salivating to get a RX 7400 in a cube with a 7540u and pay xbox series X money for it, but I see this as a misfire. Sure, there will be consumers who like it, but just like the Steam Deck, its a small market, not some major game changer.

TheGeekn°72I don't like both the title and the premise of this article, I honestly doubt Valve claims the Machine is *better* than 70% of what people have, I'd guess they rather said it's *equal* (mostly true, it has PS5 performing specs) OR better (doubtful considering you can get about the same core and memory specs with higher CU count, power and cooling profiles relatively easily up until now)
though unless they explicitly said that it's better, in which case I'd welcome a link to the correct info, I didn't find anything claiming something else, maybe I'm wrong on that

I agree maybe the article could be worded better, perhaps the Steam Machine is more on par with what most people have, but at lot of people also aren't gaming enthusiasts, many are fine with an iGPU playing older or less demanding games.

TheGeekn°72I keep reminding people that NVMe enclosures are dirt cheap and USB-C supports 10Gbps, which is plenty for that kind of usage

Exactly, I would've liked to see an extra M.2 slot though it would have to be on the motherboard or only having the option of 2230 sized NVMe drives.

TheGeekn°72then go ahead, you're welcome to try and convince console players (of which I think most of the targeted customer base of the machine will be made of) to learn how to make a PC on their own, which is way too muchh info to teach/learn/process, or will theiy choose the convenience to buy, plug-n-play a Machine? All for slightly more than a PS5 that retains all of the functions of a console and their Steam library while having all the functions of a PC in a format that sips on power and can be thrown in a backpack to play with the homies, at your best bro's place on friday evening.
I made my 1000€ homemade GabeCube "Pro" as a blueprint people could follow but not many people (the casual gamer kind that doesn't even know what a CPU is, just that pretty colors and explosions appear when you press the ON button) are gonna go out of their way to make their own.

Console users is what Valve might be aiming for, or console users that also own a Steam Deck and have built up a Steam library.
And the thing people are missing is you can't build a PC the size of the Steam Machine, or any SFF PC for less than $1000.

Sunlight91Correct! Most of the Steam Machine's price goes into having anything at all and not performance. A new gaming PC under $1000 makes no sense.

A budget gaming PC with a 7500F & 9060 XT 16GB would be 100% faster or 200% for ray tracing games. (my rough estimation with Hardware Unboxed data)
With normal RAM and SSD prices you could have build that for $1000 easily.

So keeping the same price to performance would mean $500 or $333 for raytracing games. Otherwise it is bad value for gaming.

From another viewpoint, Dell, HP & Lenovo Office PCs start at $600. Their CPU is better, but they have no GPU. I think the Steam Machine is more an atypical balanced office PC than a gaming PC.

I disagree, gaming PC's shouldn't have to start at $1000, and it's really unfortunate that gaming PC's have been normalized to cost $1500 for anything halfway decent.
Depending on the price of the Steam Machine, it could make more sense to buy one than build your own with similar hardware with how RAM and SSD prices are becoming massively inflated.

TheinsanegamerNWell, it was a Valve engineer that claimed that, and it was in the article linked to you.

hm, so you're taking a sentence from a single engineer that very likely to be excited about showing off his work, hence prone to slip ups as word of the entire company?

TheinsanegamerNMedia engine performance has nothing to do with gaming, which was the subject at hand.

no, but not having media capabilities is kind of a feature set to have in this day and age

TheinsanegamerNYou're also wrong. The RX 7400 has a media decode/encode engine. This is not the RX 6400.
hmc-tech.com/gpu/amd-radeon-rx-7400

my bad, I just checked and I was accidentally thinking of the 6400, which has no encode capabilities, honest mistake

TheinsanegamerNSo yeah, I'm pretty comfortable in saying this GPU is a derivative of the RX 7400. That, and both of these GPUs are Navi 33.

I never said they weren't using the same die, I said you can't point at the 7400 when the obvious SKU to compare it is the 7600M, taking the massively underpowered (literally, a third of the TDP a,d 30-40% lower clocks) model as the comparison point while having full knowledge of the other much more powerful being the intended performance target is bad faith

TheinsanegamerNThe existence of these machines doesnt justify the GabeCubes price. The main complaint I hear about those mini PCs, aside from the atrocious reliability of oddball chinese brand names, is that they are too expensive for the performance they offer.

what do you mean it doesn't justify the existence of the Cube? for the same price, you get something that has a dedicated GPU and video memory that's twice-and-some more powerful than the iGPU of the best SKU these have to offer

TheinsanegamerNHaving a dedicated card doesnt really matter when its performance is garbage. Who want sto spend %750 on a non upgradeable PC that is that slow?

for the third time, it has PS5-like performance, besides just looking at the specs, the best evidence of that is the LTT video this whole article is based on, they're playing 4K@60 w/ FSR cyberpunk, as advertised by Valve, that's not exactly slow to me! and the reality is, people are gonna play in 1080p anyways so quality will be much better and settings will be adjustable as desired

TheinsanegamerNA) your project already has more storage and RAM and stronger WIFI and a better CPU then the Steam machine is using
B) Valve is not paying retail prices.

A) that's the whole point, I made it more capable by design to show people what a "Pro" version could be like and how to make their own, if their budget is limited, they can scale all the way down to R5 7400F/16GB/RX7600XT
B) what Valve wouldn't pay in retail price, they'd be paying in custom design

TheinsanegamerNDedicated environment, not a direct comparison. Enjoyment of the PS5 =! people will enjoy gaming on a slow RX 7400 derivative.

The Deck struggles with UE5 games in general. That's not what people want to spend $750 to experience on their TV. Portables ar ea niche audience willing to sacrifice to have games on the go, the living room console audience is not the same type of consumer.

I'm fully aware, but you're completely missing the point, I was taking the PS5 as the primary example, the Deck was just secondary, they both use Zen2/RDNA2 and yet are still relevant to the conversation, so you can't exactly call the Machine slow when clearly a similarly powered machine and massively underpowered one are running games just fine for people, CP77 runs on the Deck!

TheinsanegamerNAnd what happens in 5+ years when8 core is the new minimum? The AMD community is all about upgrading, this cannot be upgraded. That gives it a finite lifespan, and that harms its value.

People typically change their device every 5-8 years, I don't see your argument here, consoles get a new generation every 6-7 years or so, maybe less, there's still plenty of people running GTX10/RX5000 and Intel 9th gen/Ryzen 3000, by the time comes to change it, it'll have served its intended time and purpose, as every device does
and I'd like to point out stuff like Intel changing socket every two gens, DDR standard changing every 7-10 years, etc...

TheinsanegamerNIf the GabeBox supported upgrading the CPU.GPU, the price could make a lot more sense as you could upgrade it long term.

Newsflash, most console players want a CONSOLE, not a PC masquerading as a console that doesnt properly support vsync and cant play the biggest multiplayer games on the market. I dont need to convince them.

what do you mean it doesn't support vsync?

TheinsanegamerNThe only guys I know who still take their PCs to a bros place on a Friday evening all have full ATX towers and lug that hardware up 3 flights of stairs.

good on them

TheinsanegamerNEven theough they do it semi regularly, not one of them sees any value in makign the PC smaller.
Those that dont want to lug the thing around have these things called Laptops.

alright, find me a laptop priced like a Machine (say 700$) with the same or more performance
let's say the price of the screen and battery is about equal than the cost of making the PSU internal, adding CEC, custom fan... into the machine.

TheinsanegamerNThe market for the GabeCube here is
A) peopel whoa re OK with sub $250 GPU performance

in a very small package that sips on power

TheinsanegamerNB) people who are OK with paying $700+ for that performance

they are, since they're buying consoles

TheinsanegamerNC) people whoa re OK with not being able to upgrade that performance

they are, since they're buying consoles

TheinsanegamerND) people whoa re OK using linux as their main OS

technically, PS5's OS is Linux based, plus they gain the benefit of having PC features anyway

TheinsanegamerNE) people who want this performance to be mobile, but NOT a laptop

it doesn't have to be a laptop, just a discreet piece of hardware that fits under the TV without drawing 500+ watts

TheinsanegamerNNow, maybe I'm wrong and there are hordes of gamers just salivating to get a RX 7400 in a cube with a 7540u and pay xbox series X money for it, but I see this as a misfire. Sure, there will be consumers who like it, but just like the Steam Deck, its a small market, not some major game changer.

the Deck sold 7 millions units, I don't know about all the claw/ally/others clones but they likely did good numbers as well, both Switch 1&2 sold over 10 millions, clearly the handheld market isn't small
with Xbox leaking that the next unit will be a hybrid being 1200$, I really don't see how Valve's entry into the market doesn't make sense, especially when you add to that the fact that competition drives progress : Windows gained better gaming performance since Valve started threatening them with SteamOS and making their own PC

TheinsanegamerNValve is full of it. Better? The RX 7600 deskop chip is the equivalent of a 3060, slightly slower then a 4060. Looking at the top 10 GPUs, we have the 3060, the 4060, the 4060ti, the 3060ti, the 3070, the 3050, the 1650, and the 4070. Only looking at desktop chips, we also include the 2060 and 1060. The 1060, 2060, 1650, and 3050 are all slower. The rest are as fast or faster. More crucially, they are CHEAP. You can get a 8GB 5060 for as low as $280, and that card is ~20% faster then a 7600 desktop chip.

On that note, the steam machine does not have a 7600 desktop chip. The 28cu core count is a 7600M chip, otherwise known as the RX 7400. Now there is some debate as to its clocks, most likely, said GPU is slower then the 6650xt. Its slower then the 2070. Its slower then a 2060 super. It's slower then the RTX 5050, a card available for $249.

Is a proprietary, non upgradeable cube with a RX 7400 worth $700? In my eye - hell no. IF this thing had a 9060xt in it, sure, now we're talking, but this GPU is very weak and isnt going to age well, and cannot be upgraded. Neither can the CPU apparently, so you are forever stuck with a 6 core zen 4 chip. The only thing it would be a valid "replacement" for are PCs still using 1060s, but given how cheap faster GPUs have been available, and still are, the people using them are not likely looking to dump $700+ on a GabeCube. For half the price they could get a substantially better upgrade.

EDIT: stop saying Crucially. They dont make the MX500 anymore.

The headline is kinda clickbait, but in the article it states "equal to or better". Valve's Steam hardware survey also includes many iGPU's, not every gamer is an enthusiast emptying their wallet to chase the latest trends in AAA games. Although any dedicated 8GB GPU should be less than $200, paying nearly $300 for a 5060 that struggles in games today with features you're paying extra for is a total ripoff.

The 7600M in the Steam Machine is supposedly a custom part, as already mentioned it isn't comparable to the RX7400, you cannot just compare it by the CU count alone.

I find complaining about it not being upgradable a weird double standard, people continually defend motherboards for not having any socket longevity as being fine, but it's suddenly bad when a mini PC box has a Zen 4 CPU, most people aren't gonig to upgrade at all, let alone the average gamer knowing how to upgrade their pre-built gaming PC. Or if the gamer that the Gabecube is being aimed at even has a gaming PC, as gaming PC's are a niche compared to consoles.

And yeah someone could take some average used office PC and throw a 5060 or RX7600 into it, but doing so takes more effort than a ready to go Gabecube optimized for better performance than the typical Windows install bloated down with AI and preinstalled garbage.

Sunlight91Correct! Most of the Steam Machine's price goes into having anything at all and not performance. A new gaming PC under $1000 makes no sense.

normalizing decent hardware starting at 1000€/$ is not a good thing, that'll just tell console makers they have margins to push for higher prices if they wanted to since nothing in PCs would then be competing with them

Sunlight91A budget gaming PC with a 7500F & 9060 XT 16GB would be 100% faster or 200% for ray tracing games. (my rough estimation with Hardware Unboxed data)
With normal RAM and SSD prices you could have build that for $1000 easily.

initially I was going for a 7500F but the 9600X was 40€ more, see here

Sunlight91From another viewpoint, Dell, HP & Lenovo Office PCs start at $600. Their CPU is better, but they have no GPU. I think the Steam Machine is more an atypical balanced office PC than a gaming PC.

I don't think it's true but even if it was, I don't see the problem with that, an allrounder is also a nice machine to own

Hecate91at lot of people also aren't gaming enthusiasts, many are fine with an iGPU playing older or less demanding games.

I found a video of someone doing VR on a 780M, it was actually working quite decently, I was really impressed!
I don't have the video on hand right now, when I'll find it, I'll edit this with the link I guess

Hecate91Exactly, I would've liked to see an extra M.2 slot though it would have to be on the motherboard or only having the option of 2230 sized NVMe drives.

a vertical slot on the side of the heatsink like a dock would have been nice methinks

Hecate91Console users is what Valve might be aiming for, or console users that also own a Steam Deck and have built up a Steam library.
And the thing people are missing is you can't build a PC the size of the Steam Machine, or any SFF PC for less than $1000.

you actually can, *sorta*, that's what I'm trying to do... I didn't find a mobo with a PCIe slot smaller than ITX which is already larger than the Machine but hey, 22x22x16 compared to 16x16x16 is still pretty good! would be even smaller if PSU wasn't full sized ATX...
you can squeeze the specs down to R5 7400F/16GB/RX7600XT and it would save probably a good 200€ off the bill, even less with second hand parts, maybe even going back to AM4/DDR4 instead

Hecate91Depending on the price of the Steam Machine, it could make more sense to buy one than build your own with similar hardware with how RAM and SSD prices are becoming massively inflated.

especially since, as I've gotten a recent reminder of, most people are *NOT* willing to learn how to make a PC on their own...

TheinsanegamerNWell, it was a Valve engineer that claimed that, and it was in the article linked to you.

The Valve engineer said equal to or faster than 70% of PC's on Steam, yet people only read headlines and jump to conclusions.

TheinsanegamerNSo yeah, I'm pretty comfortable in saying this GPU is a derivative of the RX 7400. That, and both of these GPUs are Navi 33.

Not the same though, the 7600M is likely clocked higher.

TheinsanegamerNThe existence of these machines doesnt justify the GabeCubes price. The main complaint I hear about those mini PCs, aside from the atrocious reliability of oddball chinese brand names, is that they are too expensive for the performance they offer.

Those mini PC's are extremely popular though, despite not being the best price/performance value.

TheinsanegamerNHaving a dedicated card doesnt really matter when its performance is garbage. Who want sto spend %750 on a non upgradeable PC that is that slow?

And I don't see why someone would want to drop $300 on a GPU alone.

TheinsanegamerNA) your project already has more storage and RAM and stronger WIFI and a better CPU then the Steam machine is using
B) Valve is not paying retail prices.

Pretty sure Valve could figure out how to squeeze a 9060xt in there for $750. Even if it was $850 instead, a 9060xt is a far more acceptable GPU for a non upgradeable solution.

Wifi 7 isn't needed for games, 16GB is enough RAM, and it's not like a 6 core Zen 4 is underperforming.

Valve could've used a 9060XT but it would've meant a bigger box and higher prices, Valve isn't subsidizing hardware cost like Sony or Microsoft does.

TheinsanegamerNDedicated environment, not a direct comparison. Enjoyment of the PS5 =! people will enjoy gaming on a slow RX 7400 derivative.

The PS5 isn't exactly slow and people still enjoy it, the Deck also gets many complaints of being underpowered yet still is enjoyable for lighter titles more ideal for a handheld.

TheinsanegamerNThe Deck struggles with UE5 games in general. That's not what people want to spend $750 to experience on their TV. Portables ar ea niche audience willing to sacrifice to have games on the go, the living room console audience is not the same type of consumer.

PC hardware in general except for high end systems with $1000+ graphics cards struggle with UE5 games.
The console consumer doesn't care about 4K 240FPS ray traced games, those playing on a TV likely won't notice the difference between 4K and 1080P anyway.

TheinsanegamerNAnd what happens in 5+ years when8 core is the new minimum? The AMD community is all about upgrading, this cannot be upgraded. That gives it a finite lifespan, and that harms its value.

If the GabeBox supported upgrading the CPU.GPU, the price could make a lot more sense as you could upgrade it long term.

Only PC enthusiasts upgrade their hardware every year, around 5 years for a console like device is fine IMO. And yes being able to upgrade when the form factor of the system allows for it is a nice option to have.

TheinsanegamerNNewsflash, most console players want a CONSOLE, not a PC masquerading as a console that doesnt properly support vsync and cant play the biggest multiplayer games on the market. I dont need to convince them.

The only guys I know who still take their PCs to a bros place on a Friday evening all have full ATX towers and lug that hardware up 3 flights of stairs. Even theough they do it semi regularly, not one of them sees any value in makign the PC smaller. Those that dont want to lug the thing around have these things called Laptops.

The market for the GabeCube here is
A) people who are OK with sub $250 GPU performance
B) people who are OK with paying $700+ for that performance
C) people who are OK with not being able to upgrade that performance
D) people who are OK using linux as their main OS, with all the caveats
E) people who want this performance to be mobile, but NOT a laptop
F) people who want a console like experience but dont want a console.

Now, maybe I'm wrong and there are hordes of gamers just salivating to get a RX 7400 in a cube with a 7540u and pay xbox series X money for it, but I see this as a misfire. Sure, there will be consumers who like it, but just like the Steam Deck, its a small market, not some major game changer.

The Steam Machine is a PC, why wouldn't it support vsync?

Laptops aren't upgradable either, and good luck finding any decent gaming laptop under $700 that can outperform the Steam Machine.
The people buying this are going to be fine with console level performance or are upgrading from something older.
If it's $700, then the alternative is to spend more on building a PC or paying even more on a pre-built gaming PC, manufacturers are going to be hiking prices to keep their margins up as RAM prices have gone insane.
Most people are going to be fine with not upgrading anything, and at most they will look for a guide on how to upgrade the SSD.
More people than ever are switching to Linux as Windows keeps getting worse to use since the W10 EOL, not really a con when plenty of AAA games aren't worth the amount of hardware power it takes to run them decently.
It doesn't have to be mobile, mini PC's are quite popular as one can be easily placed on a desk or next to the TV.
A console like experience including Steam Big Picture mode isn't necessarily a bad thing, it opens up the PC market to console gamers that otherwise wouldn't consider a PC.

Of course gamers who want a powerful desktop don't see the point of a Steam Machine, but I think Valve knows what they're doing based on their survey data and the sales of the Steam Deck, the Steam Deck has been a massive success to the point that Microsoft decided to hop into the market with Xbox branded handhelds while trimming away some of the junk in Windows to deliver a handheld optimized OS.

Hecate91The headline is kinda clickbait, but in the article it states "equal to or better". Valve's Steam hardware survey also includes many iGPU's, not every gamer is an enthusiast emptying their wallet to chase the latest trends in AAA games.

Non enthusiasts are not buying the GabeCube either. They have laptops, which is where many of those iGPUs come from.

Hecate91Although any dedicated 8GB GPU should be less than $200, paying nearly $300 for a 5060 that struggles in games today with features you're paying extra for is a total ripoff.

Inflation. Your money is worth less then half what it was 5 years ago.

Hecate91The 7600M in the Steam Machine is supposedly a custom part, as already mentioned it isn't comparable to the RX7400, you cannot just compare it by the CU count alone.

No, it can be compared because, aside from being a custom version OF THE SAME DIE, its also the direct competition. It's no mystery how this thing will perform.

Hecate91I find complaining about it not being upgradable a weird double standard, people continually defend motherboards for not having any socket longevity as being fine, but it's suddenly bad when a mini PC box has a Zen 4 CPU, most people aren't gonig to upgrade at all, let alone the average gamer knowing how to upgrade their pre-built gaming PC. Or if the gamer that the Gabecube is being aimed at even has a gaming PC, as gaming PC's are a niche compared to consoles.

There is a difference between being locked to a CPU generation and being locked to the lowest end CPU on that generation. Hope that helps.

Hecate91And yeah someone could take some average used office PC and throw a 5060 or RX7600 into it, but doing so takes more effort than a ready to go Gabecube optimized for better performance than the typical Windows install bloated down with AI and preinstalled garbage.

Putting a GPU in a slot is more effort then playing with Proton settings? If installing a GPU is so much effort that a 3x more expensive, slower, steambox is the alternative, that user probably isnt going to want to learn Linux either.

TheGeekn°72hm, so you're taking a sentence from a single engineer that very likely to be excited about showing off his work, hence prone to slip ups as word of the entire company?

So you;re ignoring the word of someone connected to the project because it doesnt agree with your worldview?

See I can play this game too.

TheGeekn°72no, but not having media capabilities is kind of a feature set to have in this day and age

my bad, I just checked and I was accidentally thinking of the 6400, which has no encode capabilities, honest mistake

It happens.

TheGeekn°72I never said they weren't using the same die, I said you can't point at the 7400 when the obvious SKU to compare it is the 7600M, taking the massively underpowered (literally, a third of the TDP a,d 30-40% lower clocks) model as the comparison point while having full knowledge of the other much more powerful being the intended performance target is bad faith

This is not reddit. Crying "bad faith" doesnt make your argument correct.

If this were a 7600m, Valve would have said as much. You cant point at that GPU when Valve felt the need to custom design silicon with AMD as opposed to using the off the shelf part. Since there are more powerful off the shelf components readily available, this points to a LESS powerful version being prepped. You ALSO have no evidence that the 7600m is the "intended performance target", that is entirely hallucinated nonsense people have crafted to justify the weak hardware in their heads. Again, if they wanted to target the 7600m.....just use the 7600m.

Either way, the resulting GPU is slower then a RX 7600, and therefore slower then the average GPU on Steam from the last three generations, and slower then new $250 GPUs.

TheGeekn°72what do you mean it doesn't justify the existence of the Cube? for the same price, you get something that has a dedicated GPU and video memory that's twice-and-some more powerful than the iGPU of the best SKU these have to offer

Just because a slower, overpriced product exists does not grant legitimacy to a faster, but still slow and overpriced, product.

TheGeekn°72for the third time, it has PS5-like performance, besides just looking at the specs, the best evidence of that is the LTT video this whole article is based on, they're playing 4K@60 w/ FSR cyberpunk, as advertised by Valve, that's not exactly slow to me! and the reality is, people are gonna play in 1080p anyways so quality will be much better and settings will be adjustable as desired

So wait, you cry "bad faith" about about me making assumptions on GPU performance or takign an engineers word but you'll take the opinion of Linus Tech Tips, a known shill, at face value.

ROFLMAO. Bruh.

The market for an overpriced PS5 that cant play multiplayer games

Oh yeah, and TPU's 7600 didnt hit anywhere close to 4k60, so I'm hitting X to doubt so hard right now. Where are all these people that want to pay $750 for a PS5 to run CP2077 at low with FSR set to blur-o-max? That's below the settings used by the actual PS5. Thus proving my point, who wants to pay for worse performance?

TheGeekn°72A) that's the whole point, I made it more capable by design to show people what a "Pro" version could be like and how to make their own, if their budget is limited, they can scale all the way down to R5 7400F/16GB/RX7600XT
B) what Valve wouldn't pay in retail price, they'd be paying in custom design

The cost to Valve will still be far lower then paying retail.

TheGeekn°72I'm fully aware, but you're completely missing the point, I was taking the PS5 as the primary example, the Deck was just secondary, they both use Zen2/RDNA2 and yet are still relevant to the conversation, so you can't exactly call the Machine slow when clearly a similarly powered machine and massively underpowered one are running games just fine for people, CP77 runs on the Deck!

Again with this insistence that I cant say something because of an arbitrary example.

The PS5 is a closed system and does not translate 1-1 with PC performance on the same hardware. Why is that so hard to get through your skull?

The Deck runs at far lower settings on a tiny screen. Running those settings on a TV looks like actual garbage, far worse then the PS5. And you missed the point, the portable audience is VERY different from the TV gaming audience.

TheGeekn°72People typically change their device every 5-8 years, I don't see your argument here, consoles get a new generation every 6-7 years or so, maybe less, there's still plenty of people running GTX10/RX5000 and Intel 9th gen/Ryzen 3000, by the time comes to change it, it'll have served its intended time and purpose, as every device does
and I'd like to point out stuff like Intel changing socket every two gens, DDR standard changing every 7-10 years, etc...

The argument is that a system limited to very weak hardware with no upgrade path will have a very limited shelf life and, therefore, not justify a premium.

Really simple argument TBH.

TheGeekn°72what do you mean it doesn't support vsync?

linux has some serious issues with v-sync and screen tearing on both X11 and Wayland, which are not present on Windows. This is especially noticeable, but not limited to, using nVidia gpus on games running with DXVK.

TheGeekn°72good on them

alright, find me a laptop priced like a Machine (say 700$) with the same or more performance
let's say the price of the screen and battery is about equal than the cost of making the PSU internal, adding CEC, custom fan... into the machine.

How about you price out a TV, keyboard, mouse, and UPS then add that to the cost of the Steam Machine and we'll go from there.

TheGeekn°72in a very small package that sips on power

Irrelevant to point A. We are not talking about power draw.

TheGeekn°72they are, since they're buying consoles

Once again, consoles are not 1-1 on performance for the same hardware. And the PS5 is only $550, frequently on sale for under $500.

TheGeekn°72they are, since they're buying consoles

I'll give you that one

TheGeekn°72technically, PS5's OS is Linux based, plus they gain the benefit of having PC features anyway

That's a very disingenuous way of presenting that point. Consoles do not require wine to be configured, or have to deal with proton bugs, or deal with secure boot or TPM and so on. Consoles just turn on and work. Compeltely different

TheGeekn°72it doesn't have to be a laptop, just a discreet piece of hardware that fits under the TV without drawing 500+ watts

Again, power use has NO position in this argument, throw that red herring out.

You were bringing up mobility before. That implies a device that MOVES, not just sit under a TV all day.

TheGeekn°72the Deck sold 7 millions units, I don't know about all the claw/ally/others clones but they likely did good numbers as well, both Switch 1&2 sold over 10 millions, clearly the handheld market isn't small

Incorrect again. The claim of 7 million units is one of those unsubstantiated claims you said were "bad faith". Man the kettle REALLY likes calling the pot black today, eh?

In reality:
www.theverge.com/pc-gaming/618709/steam-deck-3-year-anniversary-handheld-gaming-shipments-idc
The estimate is that by the end of 2025, a total of 8 million portable PCs would have been sold. 8 million. For the whole industry. The steam deck makes up the lion share at about 4 million.

The switch is, again, a totally different market segment. It is not a PC, you cannot load games from other stores, and hell it cant even do media streaming outside an old youtube and netflix client. The switch is no more a PC then the PS5 is. They are CONSOLES. LOCKED DOWN, WALLED GARDEN, CONSOLES.

And for the record, the switch 2, as of the end of september, has sold 10.36 million units. It sold 2.5 times as many units in 3 months then Steam did in nearly 4 years.

Yeah, surely this GabeCube is gonna outsell even the Xbox /sarcasm.

TheGeekn°72with Xbox leaking that the next unit will be a hybrid being 1200$, I really don't see how Valve's entry into the market doesn't make sense, especially when you add to that the fact that competition drives progress : Windows gained better gaming performance since Valve started threatening them with SteamOS and making their own PC

Assuming the market will benefit is pure speculation. It is more likely that, much like their now $800+ series X, the $1200 Magnum or whatever they call it will be a spectacular market failure and lead to MS pulling out of the space entirely. Given how much of a misfire so much of what they have done has been so far.

A $115 550W power supply? What kind of insane pick is that? Also does the Steam Machine actually come with a controller? I was under the impression it doesn't. Either way I did the same thing the other day and came up with $680 (no controller) and Valve's costs for each component will obviously be significantly lower than retail.

Hecate91The Valve engineer said equal to or faster than 70% of PC's on Steam, yet people only read headlines and jump to conclusions.

Yeah, I know what he said. It is wrong. That's the point.

Hecate91And I don't see why someone would want to drop $300 on a GPU alone.

Because they want to game? Duh? In what world does paying $300 for a dedicated GPU not make sense, but paying $750 for a weaker, non upgradeable PC to play games does?

Upgrading older office PCs with GPUs is one of the cheapest and most popular gateways into PC gaming.

Hecate91Wifi 7 isn't needed for games,

Never said it was, only pointed out it was a newer, and more expensive, standard then what the GabeCube has

Hecate9116GB is the most popular average according to the Steam survey,

16GB is the bare minimum for a gaming PC today.

Hecate91and it's not like a 6 core Zen 4 is underperforming.

It's also as slow as you can go. It's a mobile chip too, so remember, HALF the cache. These are not great performers on desktop, being in the GabeBox doesnt make them better.

Hecate91The PS5 isn't exactly slow and people still enjoy it, the Deck also gets many complaints of being underpowered yet still is enjoyable for lighter titles more ideal for a handheld.

The PS5 is a closed garden with games tailored for its hardware, performance is not 1-1 with equivalent PC hardware. This has been true for every console ever made in history.

The Deck is a niche product appealing to a niche audience. The extremely low setting used there are justified by it being a fancy GameBoy. Not gonna work for a console. When someone pays ps5 pro money and has to play a game on worse settings then the now 13 year old PS4, they're gonna be pissed.

Hecate91Only PC enthusiasts upgrade their hardware every year, around 5 years for a console like device is fine IMO. And yes being able to upgrade when the form factor of the system allows for it is a nice option to have.

Which was my point, the price tag would be far easier to justify if the weak GPU could be upgraded later.

Who do you think this will be marketed towards? PC enthusiasts. Average console users are not going to learn how to use linux to buy a Gabenbox. They cant even be bothered to use a Windows box.

Hecate91Laptops aren't upgradable either, and good luck finding any decent gaming laptop under $700 that can outperform the Steam Machine.

The laptop includes a screen, keyboard, mouse, and UPS. And it can be used on the go.

The point was that TheGeek was discussing being able to move the GabeCube to another persons house, I pointed out that gaming laptops already exist and can do that easier.

Hecate91More people than ever are switching to Linux as Windows keeps getting worse to use since the W10 EOL, not really a con when plenty of AAA games aren't worth the amount of hardware power it takes to run them decently.

Linux is still a tiny minority of Valve users, let alone the wider gaming market. I like linux, but boy the community really overestimates just how popular they are.

Hecate91A console like experience including Steam Big Picture mode isn't necessarily a bad thing, it opens up the PC market to console gamers that otherwise wouldn't consider a PC.

Never said it was a bad thing and has nothing to do with my argument. People who dont consider a PC wont consider a Steambox either. Valve's hardware has squarely been the realm of hobbyists, not the general public.

Hecate91Of course gamers who want a powerful desktop don't see the point of a Steam Machine, but I think Valve knows what they're doing based on their survey data and the sales of the Steam Deck, the Steam Deck has been a massive success to the point that Microsoft decided to hop into the market with Xbox branded handhelds while trimming away some of the junk in Windows to deliver a handheld optimized OS.

The steam deck has averages 1 million units a year, a sales level that most console manufacturers consider an abysmal failure. That was the level of sales the PS2 hit when Sony decided to discontinue it after 14 years, at $100 a pop, mostly pure margin as the dev costs had been paid for over a decade prior.

Let's put this in perspective. The switch 2 sold more units in a month then Valve does in a year, and sold 2.5x as many consoles in 3 months as Valve did in 4 years. The Xbox branded mobile units have sold even less! The other half of the portable market is split between Asus, MSI, and lenovo.

Still think the Gabe Cube is going to light the market on fire?

TheGeekn°72I found a video of someone doing VR on a 780M, it was actually working quite decently, I was really impressed!
I don't have the video on hand right now, when I'll find it, I'll edit this with the link I guess

I've seen reviews of mini-pc's with a 780M, I have yet to see VR performance, but that definitely sounds impressive for an iGPU.

TheGeekn°72a vertical slot on the side of the heatsink like a dock would have been nice methinks

Yeah, anywhere an extra M.2 would fit would've been nice.

TheGeekn°72you actually can, *sorta*, that's what I'm trying to do... I didn't find a mobo with a PCIe slot smaller than ITX which is already larger than the Machine but hey, 22x22x16 compared to 16x16x16 is still pretty good! would be even smaller if PSU wasn't full sized ATX...
you can squeeze the specs down to R5 7400F/16GB/RX7600XT and it would save probably a good 200€ off the bill, even less with second hand parts, maybe even going back to AM4/DDR4 instead

I really like the Deskmeet form factor, M.2 on the back is a nice addition. The ASrock case is similar enough in size, though a comparison in cooling performance would be interesting as the Deskmeet looks limited with an integrated ATX PSU.

TheGeekn°72especially since, as I've gotten a recent reminder of, most people are *NOT* willing to learn how to make a PC on their own...

PC building is easy to anyone who has done it before, the hard part is getting someone to try it compared to buying a PC or staying with consoles.
Building a PC at all doesn't make much sense unless RAM prices return to normal.

TheinsanegamerNNon enthusiasts are not buying the GabeCube either. They have laptops, which is where many of those iGPUs come from.

I'm sure non-enthusiasts bought the Steam Deck, and having a laptop doesn't mean you can't have another gaming system.

TheinsanegamerNInflation. Your money is worth less then half what it was 5 years ago.

Not just inflation, the die sizes on x50 and x60 cards are tiny, Nvidia and AMD aren't losing any money selling you a $300 GPU compared to 5 years ago.

TheinsanegamerNNo, it can be compared because, aside from being a custom version OF THE SAME DIE, its also the direct competition. It's no mystery how this thing will perform.

It isn't the same die and there isn't any knowing it'll be exactly the same until someone reviews the Steam Machine.

TheinsanegamerNThere is a difference between being locked to a CPU generation and being locked to the lowest end CPU on that generation. Hope that helps.

Nope, not any different because when you're locked to a CPU generation the CPU isn't exactly upgradable either.

TheinsanegamerNPutting a GPU in a slot is more effort then playing with Proton settings? If installing a GPU is so much effort that a 3x more expensive, slower, steambox is the alternative, that user probably isnt going to want to learn Linux either.

Installing a GPU is going to be a lot more effort when the user has to know if their PSU will handle an upgrade, and if they'll need more RAM as well. Plugging in a gaming system is a lot less effort than upgrading the GPU, Linux gaming distros are less hassle than Windows is, and the average user won't be exiting out of Steam mode.

Hecate91I'm sure non-enthusiasts bought the Steam Deck, and having a laptop doesn't mean you can't have another gaming system.

How many of the 4 million were non enthusiasts? Non enthusiasts dont even know what a Steam is.

Look at the switch. THAT is what non enthusiasts buy.

Hecate91Not just inflation, the die sizes on x50 and x60 cards are tiny, Nvidia and AMD aren't losing any money selling you a $300 GPU compared to 5 years ago.

The cost of the wafers have exploded over the last decade, as have the raw materials. $300 today is the $150 of 2012.

GPUs have roughly kept up with government sourced inflation numbers overall. If you go by real inflation, they have significantly under paced inflation.

Hecate91It isn't the same die and there isn't any knowing it'll be exactly the same until someone reviews the Steam Machine.

True, we wont know the EXACT speed, but we CAN extrapolate. We know it has 28cus. We know it is built on rDNA3. We also know that it will have 8GB of VRAM. We ALSO know the 32CU RX 7600 already exists.

Based on that, it is reasonable to believe that the GPU will be slower then the 7600m, since if they wanted a 7600m, 8GB 7600ms already exist, and if they wanted something faster, the 7600 already exists. So if they are putting in the money to custom build a GPU, its likely to hit specific heat/power targets, and will be slower then off the shelf solutions.

Hecate91Nope, not any different because when you're locked to a CPU generation the CPU isn't exactly upgradable either.

I want you to tell me straight to my face that there is no real upgrade going from a 7500f to a 7950x3d, to keep this zen 4 based. Please, tell me how that is not upgradeable in your mind.

Hecate91Installing a GPU is going to be a lot more effort when the user has to know if their PSU will handle an upgrade, and if they'll need more RAM as well. Plugging in a gaming system is a lot less effort than upgrading the GPU, Linux gaming distros are less hassle than Windows is, and the average user won't be exiting out of Steam mode.

If a user is unwilling to read basic specs to upgrade a GPU, they're not going to want to learnt he basic in an outs of using Linux either. Linux is not less of a hassle, stop the cap. It's not a hassle to YOU, because you know linux and are willing to research how to fix problems with Proton, but to the average console gamer, they will see that as much of an insurmountable wall as installing a GPU. ESPECIALLY if multiplayer is involved.