GreatWyrmGab (Posts tagged localization)

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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna

I’ve been reading Witch Watch for a while, so of course I watched the anime. It reminded me how much the status quo has changed since chapter 1.

One thing that hasn’t changed is that some of the jokes are really hard to translate.

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So, if you’re familiar enough with Japanese culture, you might catch “Momota” and “pheasant” and figure out that it’s a reference to the folk tale about Momotaro, a peach-boy who beat a bunch of oni after befriending a dog (inu), monkey (saru), and pheasant (kiji).

But if you’re not? Four dudes shout random names, and the fifth dude wonders why the fourth one isn’t a pheasant. That’s it.

It’s handled a little more gracefully in the manga, but that’s not a fair comparison. Anime doesn’t have margins where a translator can stick a little explanatory note.

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Well, I guess you can cram in a little explanatory note, but that usually looks silly.

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It adds clutter, it’s stuck in a time-locked medium, and this kind of note just isn’t a very good substitute for the cultural context that the original joke relies on.

This joke is followed by a second joke referencing a different Japanese folk tale (I have no idea which one), and we’re barely more than a minute into the first episode.

It’s a confusing first impression for weebs insufficiently familiar with Japanese culture, and I’m not sure I can say it’s an incorrect impression. There are multiple chapters centered around a little magical pastry guy who speaks in Japanese bread-name puns.

witch watch translation localization anime
aihoshiino
wall-maria-around-ba-sing-se

Machine Translation: Player-kun…. Why would you defend King Greedō? He knows nothing but greed and ignores his own people’s suffering. That’s not how a king should be!

Official Translation: Hey… tell me, why are you defending King Avaricean? He’s no king… All he loves is the sound of gold dropping into his coffers, as he leaves his people to rot!

Twitter Localization Discoursist: as you can see, the meaning of this line was COMPLETELY lost in translation. Until I read this, I had NO IDEA that King Avaricean was supposed to be greedy

translation localization discourse
penultimate-step
cina-full-moon-xanadium

it really is the most Pokémon thing ever that they made a route full of rapid water that if you're lucky you might navigate in just the right spot to find an area you can dive, and you follow that along and find a cave where everything is written in Braille - like, the language made for the visually-impaired which can only be read by touching it, which you obviously cannot do through an LCD screen - which if you somehow manage to read it you find out you need to A) use Dig, which if you do happen to have on you you then need B) a fucking Wailord and Relicanth, two late-game kinda hard to get Pokémon I guarantee extremely few people would ever have used one of on their team never mind both water-types at the same time for some reason, and if you DO manage to do all of that it unlocks three caves across the region which it doesn't even tell you where they are and you have to solve more braille puzzles and your prize is 3 pokemon that just arent even good

loopingpyre

'if you somehow manage to read it'

This is really funny because the japanese, european and australian instruction manuals came with braille guides that talk about what it is, the history and how to read it.


The American release said fuck them kids.

pokemon localization language
greatwyrmgold
greatwyrmgold

Boss: Alright, you're translating Witch Watch this week. Good luck.

Translator: What do you mean?

Boss: This week, there's a magic pastry thing that only speaks in bread names.

Translator: That shouldn't be hard, I just need to find bread names that sound like the English—

Boss: And there are little pictures of the bread in question.

Translator: ...

Translator: I guess our readers are getting a little Japanese lesson this week.

greatwyrmgold

Boss: Alright, you’re translating Witch Watch this week. Good luck.

Translator: Huh?

Boss: The “magic pastry that only speaks in bread names” spell from two years ago is back.

Translator: So I just have to do the same thing again?

Boss: Yeah, but try not to get too silly. These impossible-to-translate bread puns are an emotionally significant moment of catharsis for one of the ex-warlocks.

Translator:

witch watch manga translation localization bread
penultimate-step
jibunbosh

truly the most insane thing about the el dorado launch is that yesterday this guy walked into the revue starlight discord el dorado spoilers channel and was like "oh yeah I guess I can say now that I did the english localization"

turns out he's been lurking in the channels for SEVEN MONTHS casually asking questions about character appearances in different media and for opinions on localization choices

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this is so insanely fucking funny. I kneel

el dorado or something localization translation anecdote
tbposting
mysharona1987

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I wish this was my job.

mysharona1987

I mean, “Emily” is a nice enough name for a girl.

There, I just earned $1000.

icedsilver

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bairnsidhe

I've read about her! She mostly works with Chinese parents to pick appropriate sounding English names for their children to use later in life. See, Chinese names do not tend to work well outside of China because of how tonal and unique the phonetics can be and how few international documents allow the symbols. Rather than sign their kids up for either never working or traveling abroad or constantly being disrespected on accident, many parents give them backup English first names in addition to their Chinese first names.

However, the problem arises that Chinese parents do not always know English naming connotations any more than I would know Chinese ones, and there’s a LOT of very deep cultural traditions involved in naming your kids, so they can't just grab a popular baby names list and call it good. So some poor kids get names that were direct English translations of those Chinese naming sensibilities that didn't translate well (a friend of mine in College had to help a tutoring student with name change paperwork so she wouldn't have to go by Lush. My dad knew a guy who narrowly dodged the first name Rolex, but his name ended up Cash, thankfully. That sort of thing) or names that ARE English name's but have... unfortunate connotations (think Karen or Hannibal), or names that are just very outdated (Bertha, Ethyl, Quintin, Norbert, etc.). And without becoming world travellers or investing a shitton of time in learning way more about other cultures than they really need to for daily lifw, your average lower to middle class parents couldn't really guarantee that the names they gave their kids would actually help them, thereby risking continuing the cycle of social stratification and limiting upward mobility.

So this woman learns this, and goes "Oh, I know how to fix this!" And she starts a business where Chinese parents can email her with a list of things that they want their children's names to mean or reflect, auspicious elements they want, etc, and she pools her knowledge of English speaking cultural norms and a bunch of baby name guides to email them a short list of names that meet their needs with little descriptions of each one explaining what it means and how people will think of it, and they can pick a meaningful name in accordance with their cultural traditions that won't screw their kids over later.

babies names advice nuance culture clash localization kinda
penultimate-step

Medium & Marketing for 90′s Anime Dubs

centrally-unplanned

Today is Hayao Miyazaki’s 80th birthday, which made sure my dash was filled with Ghibli tidbits. A discussion of my personal favourite, Kiki’s Delivery Service, brought up its ill-fated original dub by Disney in 1998. Ghibli still didn’t have the courage yet to put their foot down on changes for international releases, and so there are a lot of alterations - the theme songs are changed to be anglicized, almost any “dead space” or quiet moments in the film have someone (normally animal sidekick Jiji the cat) improv lines over the scenes to liven them up, and in particular the ending is changed to be less bittersweet as Jiji, who in the original Kiki permanently loses the ability to talk to as a sign of growing up, regains his voice.

These changes slot neatly into the zeitgeist of all 90′s anime changes - a disregard for the property’s core appeal as they were bowdlerized for a western audience. Sailor Moon is an infamous victim of a similar process - at least Kiki took place in fantasy Europe, the Sailor Moon dub’s attempts to pretend that the show doesn’t take place in Japan were simply insane as they cut out or blurred every appearance of Japanese writing in the show, leaving reams of animation frames on the floor in the process.

(Tangent time: the greatest scene ever is one where, upon reading a note by Usagi, to prove it was her Minako/Sailor Venus comments “it must be from her, its written entirely in hiragana”, the simpler form of written Japanese compared to kanji, which Usagi as a running gag cannot write. So in the dub they just…blur out the text of the note, and have Minako comment “I had to read it with my imagination. It’s all written in funny symbols!“. I distinctly remember watching the episode live when I was 12 years old and going “wait what the fuck does that even mean?” and suddenly realizing that the show was changing its own script, it was a trip of a moment)

Like most people I do malign these changes, but I am actually here to partially defend them via contextualization. The idea that American audiences would have cared that the show was Japanese is pretty dumb, but what you often hear are statements like “kids in Japan appreciated Sailor Moon/Kiki’s Delivery Service just fine, they didn’t need to change it”. That is possible, but it mistakes why changes are being made to begin with - its not the “culture of children in the US vs Japan”, its intended market via the medium of distribution.

Kiki’s Delivery Service was released in Japanese theatres in 1989, and it was the highest grossing film of the year in Japan (about ~US$18 million, man do things change). Kiki’s Delivery Service the Disney dub, was….released on VHS in 1998. VHS releases and movie theatre releases aren’t really intended accomplish the same thing. Remember all those direct-to-video Disney sequels? Lion King 2: Simba’s Pride? Cinderella 3: A Twist in Time? Remember how they were all just garbage? Anyone looking back at them today cringes, with a few exceptions. But none of us cringed when we were 8! My partner is a huge Disney fangirl, and when she was young she didn’t even distinguish between the theatre release and the VHS sequels - it was all Disney, you just lined them up and played them in a row as the complete canon. Yes, these movies sucked partially because they were low budget, but they weren’t actually *that* low budget - and not the throwaways your memory probably tells you they were. Lion King 2? Made ~$300 million in net sales, almost as much as the original Lion King’s theatrical run.

What those Disney VHS sequels and Kiki share is the fact that their intended market was *only* children. That is the point of VHS - you put it on for your kids and then go make dinner. Its the virtual babysitter, the kids can loop it while reenacting every scene with their stuffed animals. Movies released in theatres don’t serve that role at all - the parents are paying $15 a head and they are trapped in their seats for the whole runtime. It has to entertain everyone, or you aren’t going to go, or at least not as often. VHS releases sucked because kids don’t care, they actually do enjoy the constant quippy lines and dumb jokes. That is equally true for Japanese kids - its just that Kiki’s intended audience wasn’t Japanese kids, it was “all ages” - a very different category.

The same is true for Sailor Moon, by the way. The idea that kids in Japan could “handle more mature themes like death” unlike American audiences doesn’t hold up quite as much when you look at Disney theatrical releases like the Lion King - Mufasa’s death pulls no punches, but kids didn’t mind. And Japan does have shows like Doraemon that are just as childish as the 90′s western cartoons you remember. Its that Sailor Moon’s audience wasn’t just kids. 

Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon aired in March of 1992 on TV Asahi. Asahi was not a kids network, and Sailor Moon did not air in a kid’s block - instead in its “Anime Block”. It aired on Saturdays, at 7:00 PM. For most of its runtime, the 7:30 slot after was held by Slam Dunk, a hyper-serious basketball anime adapted from a manga in Weekly Shonen Jump. You think director Kunihiko Ikuhara was throwing in queer relationships and even trans characters, and every other villian was a half-naked seductress, because it was gonna really resonate with 8 year olds? Sailor Moon was for 8 year olds, yes…and for otaku. So, 15 year olds, lets not exaggerate here. But still, its hype, its success, came just as much from its teen and adult fans as much as its young devotees. Which was intentional - it was *marketed* that way. That’s why it aired at 7:00 PM on a Saturday. 

Sailor Moon’s original dub, on the other hand, aired on UPN at, yeesh, 6:30 AM?? Then on USA’s Cartoon Express at the much more reasonable 8:30 AM, and later on Toonami at 4:00 PM. All of these are kids slots, to watch over cereal or snacks before/after school while the parents are busy. You do not expect the adult in the room to be watching alongside the kid, or for teens to really be paying attention.

And to cut off the logical objection, a show like Sailor Moon was just not going to get a 7:00 PM Saturday slot in the US in the 90′s. Nor was Kiki going to get a movie theatre release in 1998 of any scale. Movie releases are expensive, Saturday slots are precious, the funding just wasn’t there for something so untested as Japanese anime. There was no demand in the west for it - that demand would only be created later, by a generation who grew up on, well, shitty Sailor Moon dubs and Kiki VHS releases. And what success in the media slots these shows and movies did have are shaped by those market niches.

I don’t want to be over-deterministic on this - at some point Cartoon Network rolled the dice on Cowboy Bebop and Full Metal Alchemist and it worked - maybe they could have done that in 1995 with like Neon Genesis Evangelion, who knows! And of course US children’s cartoons are, beyond market forces, burdened with regulatory moralizing that Japanese media does not have. But I do think these 90′s dub efforts should get the proper context for the constraints they were operating under, and why they existed at all, as they are criticized.

anime marketing localization context disney studio ghibli sailor moon also others. but those are the primary examples.
penultimate-step
studentofetherium

society is a language

studentofetherium

to adapt a work from one culture to another, in the way that many adaptations of anime seek to transplant their setting from Japan to the United States, or the way that any adaptation will cross cultural boundaries, will need to seek to translate not only the language and text but the culture itself for the new setting. everything that has ever been made reflects the society it was created in, so it take something into another culture requires considering those elements and what can be maintained versus what must be changed for the new society. society is a language and one that requires translation

translation localization culture
penultimate-step
ramshacklefey

Kind of hilarious to me how poorly the title "Mob Psycho 100" localized to English-speaking areas. To someone whose first language is English, it scans as:

  • Mob (Yakuza, Mafia)
  • Psycho (violent person with "crazy" behaviors)
  • Thus: a particularly violent member of organized crime.

But in Japanese it scans as:

  • Mob (background characters in crowd scenes in manga or anime)
  • Psycho (short for psychic)
  • Thus: a psychic who looks/acts like someone you'd never pick out of a crowd scene in a comic.
bogleech

"Psycho" to mean "someone with psychokinesis" has been an anime thing since the 70s so I knew that one but the meaning of "Mob" really never crossed my mind. I thought it was just his name for no reason at all.

elkian

Japanese read: ESP NPC

English read: MAXIMUM MURDER

titles localization or lack thereof mob psycho 100 irony